Home Biz of Baseball - Interviews Interview - Tal Smith - Pres. Baseball Ops - Astros

Like Shoot to Thrill - An AC/DC Tribute on Facebook!

An authentic tribute of AC/DC that covers the best of the Bon Scott era and the best of Brian Johnson's material

Who's Online?

We have 699 guests online

Atom RSS

Interview - Tal Smith - Pres. Baseball Ops - Astros PDF Print E-mail
User Rating: / 2
PoorBest 
Written by Maury Brown   
Sunday, 09 October 2005 12:00

Tal SmithAs the President of Baseball Operations for the Houston Astros, Tal Smith has helped assemble the first MLB team in history from Texas to go to a World Series. But, Smith is more than that. He has been involved in the birth of not one, but two ballparks (the Astrodome and Minute Maid Park). He's also a master at the preparation and presentation of salary arbitration cases, the financial appraisal of franchises and testimony as an expert witness in sports-related litigation.


 
You simply can't talk about most any facet of Major League Baseball in Houston without touching on Tal Smith. Be it assistant GM to Gabe Paul, the development of the Astrodome, General Manager of the Astros, the development of Minute Maid Park, President of Baseball Operations, as well as, contract negotiations and the salary arbitration process, Smith has touched on it all.

Smith is a sage. He's also a longtime member of SABR. If there's such thing as a Baseball Man's Baseball Man, Smith fits the bill. To be involved in the birth of not one, but two ballparks, is extraordinary. His work with Judge Roy Hofheinz on the Astrodome paved the way for countless attributes and amenities of the modern ballpark. Tal's Hill, the 10 degree incline at Minute Maid Park in centerfield, was but one of his ideas for the current home of the Astros. Talk salary structure and you get an insight into how methodical his approach has been when it came to setting contracts based on solid analysis. Smith is legendary in baseball for his ability to see how crucial statistical analysis would be when salary arbitration came into play in the '70's.

Talbot Smith was born in 1933 in Framington, Mass. He attended Culver Military Academy (IN) and Duke University where he earned a bachelor of arts degree in business administration in 1955. Before entering Duke (at the age of 16) Tal spent the summer as a staff announcer for the ABC radio affiliate in Durham, N.C. While at Duke, he broadcast Blue Devil basketball for stations in the region. During the summer recess in 1953, he worked as an assistant for the editorial staff at The Sporting News in St. Louis. Following graduation, he served as an officer in the United States Air Force for two years while continuing his radio work with various sports programs on a part-time basis. Upon completion of his military service, he worked as a news reporter for the Cape Cod (MA) Standard-Times before joining the Cincinnati Reds in December of 1957 as an administrative assistant for scouting and minor league operations.

Tal started his baseball career in earnest within the farm department of the Cincinnati Reds in 1958. He came to Houston in November of 1960 when he was named assistant to the general manager of the new National League Franchise. He was named team farm director of the Colt .45s in April of 1961, a position he held for two years. In April of 1963 he became assistant to the president of the Houston Sports Association, acting primarily as a liaison for the HSA during construction of the Astrodome. In the late 1960s, he also developed the formulas and pioneered the use of computerization of scouting reports and other player data. During the first of Tal's three terms with the Houston franchise, the club signed and developed more players that reached the Major Leagues than any other team.

Following completion of the Astrodome, Tal was named vice president and director of player personnel in December of 1965. In 1972, he was named vice president and director of operations for Astrodome-Astrohall Stadium corporation. In November of 1973, he left Houston to become executive vice president of the New York Yankees, serving in that capacity until his return to Houston as general manager of the Astros in August of 1975. He was named president of the club on Sept. 23, 1976.

Since 1961, he has been owner and operator of Tal Smith Enterprises, a firm which has provided consulting services to 26 of the 30 Major League clubs. The most recognized functions have been the preparation and presentation of salary arbitration cases, the financial appraisal of franchises and testimony as an expert witness in sports-related litigation. Tal also served as the sole arbitor in two disputes involving Major League Baseball where the Commissioner was recused.

In this interview, Tal talks of how he broke into baseball, his work with Judge Roy Hofheinz on the Astrodome, the development of Minute Maid Park, breaking down how he views the arbitration process, memorable cases with Barry Bonds, Bobby Bonilla and Don Mattingly, as well as touching on Roger Clemens, Carlos Beltran, and what it means to be a member of SABR.

Maury Brown

(Source for historical information- the 2005 Houston Astros Media Guide)


BizBall: Can you tell us how you got your foot in the door in baseball? I understand that speed reading or writing was somehow involved.

SMITH: Oh, where did you uncover that? After graduating Duke, I had an ROTC Commission—a couple of years in the Air Force. But my aspiration from the time I was 7 years old when I got hooked on baseball with the Tiger/Reds World Series in 1940 (which obviously dates me)—from that time on, baseball was a passion. Like almost all of us, I didn’t have enough talent or skill to play it professionally, so I turned to other things. I was fortunate enough I got a summer position with The Sporting News in 1953 while I was still in college. Everything I did I tried to center around athletics and particularly baseball.

When I was in the Air Force—obviously I had a two-year commitment, you start planning what you’re going to do. Most of my associates were looking at Fortune 500 companies or their father’s business or something of that nature. Here I was knocking on doors trying to get into baseball. At that time, there were 16 clubs obviously. Wrote letters to everybody; got varying responses—just a brief acknowledgement from Gabe Paul, who said, if I was ever in the area, he’d be happy to meet with me. I wrote back and I got out of service in mid-May of 1957. My wife and I drove to Cincinnati, and I cooled my heels in a small office,—a waiting room, the Reds had their downtown office—waiting for Mr. Paul. Obviously that was not a priority for him. So when he concluded with everything else, they ushered me back at the close of business—the club was on the road. That was the first time I had been in a major league office. I’d obviously been in a ballpark a lot, but never in an office.

I had a brief audience with him. Gabe asked a little about background—obviously at that age I didn’t have much of a background. I did have The Sporting News and I’d done broadcasting. I had a fine education, went to the Culver Military Academy as a prep school and then Duke. Gabe asked if I could type. Well, I had taken typing on my own during my high school years. He asked if I knew shorthand. I sort of lied and said that wasn’t part of Gabe Paulthe curriculum at Duke. He proceeded to tell me a couple of stories about people in business and show business who had actually launched their careers as ”male secretaries”. Gabe pointed out that in baseball—remember that this was the 1950’s—it wasn’t as common or appropriate for women to travel with men on business, especially baseball. It was a man’s game, for the most part.

So, after that ray of hope or ”suggestion” from Gabe, I went back to Durham, North Carolina and I enrolled in the Croft Business School with a number of 17-18 year old high school girls who were taking typing and shorthand. Obviously, I was looking for a shortcut and I had heard of speed-writing. Speed-writing is kind of like Berlitz is to language. It’s total immersion. You use abbreviations and a few symbols and so on. So, I wrote Gabe, told him I was enrolled. I sent him a progress report halfway through. Finished it up and—at that point you start thinking, I’ve got a job.

While I was carrying on this correspondence with Gabe, and other clubs, I said I didn’t want to commit myself long term. I was born in Massachusetts and in the Air Force; I was stationed at Otis on Cape Cod, which we dearly loved. So I checked with the radio station and the newspaper there.

After a couple of conversations with The Stanley Cape Edition, an offshoot of the New Bedford Times, they sort of hired me conditionally over the phone subject to a final interview; then my wife and I drove up to New Bedford to meet with the editor. I left my wife in the car while I ran upstairs to meet with the managing editor. He wanted to make sure that I wasn’t using this as a stepping stone to, say, the New York Times or Boston Globe like so many other college grads were doing. I told him that wasn’t my intention. I guess, in the interest of full disclosure, he never asked about the Cincinnati Reds. That was such a long shot at the time, so I didn’t bring it up. I worked for the paper there for about 3 months.

Meanwhile I told Gabe where I was. So I came home one day; there was a letter from him that told me they had an opening. I negotiated my salary back up to what I was making at the paper, which was $75/week. Gabe had offered me $300/month, a little bit short of $75/week. So I packed up the car and went to Cincinnati.

BizBall: You came to the expansion Colt .45s as an assistant GM to Gabe Paul in November of 1960. Did you consider staying with Reds at the time, or did you see that as an opportunity to continue working with Gabe Paul?

SMITH: I thought it was a great opportunity—very exciting—a chance to play a more important role. So I was excited about that.

BizBall: What type of philosophy, and ways of measuring talent did you learn from Paul that you applied when you took over as the Farm Director of the Colt '45s in 1961?

SMITH: It was great exposure. I suppose people that had the benefit of working for Gabe realized you had to be very thorough; you had to be accurate and leave "no stone unturned," so to speak. This was in the days prior to the Rule IV draft; so amateur scouting was a lot different. Again, just to be relentless and exhaustive in your research and to be aggressive.

BizBall: How did you transition from the GM duties to become the assistant to Roy Hofheinz and the Houston Sports Association during the development and construction of the Astrodome. It's kind of an interesting transition, you went from a being a GM to facility development.

SMITH: Well, this was in the early years of the Houston franchise-a lot of turnover. Gabe left as you know. We set up shop down there in late October or early November of 1960. Gabe called me from the road in April of 1961. We were in a bus station operating the AAA club. He called me to say he was going to Cleveland. This was a shock for a new franchise. Gabe asked us all-and there were some others from Cincinnati that had come down, Bill Giles and Charlie Morris, to stay 60 days before we made a decision. I elected to stay because it was  an exciting opportunity. Well, then there was a changeover. Paul Richards came in and a lot of the people he had been associated with. By the spring of 1963, when it became clear to me that Richards wanted his own people, we just didn't see eye-to-eye, so to speak. I was going to leave to go to Cleveland to join Gabe. Judge Hofheinz called me in and was sort of apologetic. He said that Paul [Richards] is the GM and he couldn't do anything about that. But then he asked me to stay as his aide and take over the liaison work for the club during the construction of the Astrodome.

Again, it was a sort of unique experience, a once in a lifetime thing. I called Gabe and he encouraged me to stay here. If it didn't work out, I could always make a move later on. So I spent two years doing that, and thoroughly enjoyed it. I missed being out of baseball, but this was such an exciting project-you learn on the job as you have to do in other situations.

When I first joined the Reds at the end of 1957, the story I was relating, we had a minor league Spring Training in 1958 in Laredo, TX. Bill McKechnie, Jr. the Son of Deacon, was what was generally termed the Farm Director-in charge of Scouting and Development which generally were combined in those days. Bill took sick during Spring Training. Here I was, I'd only been there with a couple of months of experience. In those days, the rules on player assignments and movements were much more complex than they are today. So, when Bill got sick, Gabe flew over from where the major league club was training in Tampa. He put Phil Segey in charge as the interim Farm Director. Well Phil had a scouting background, but not an administrative background. So, between Phil and I, we had to figure it out and we did. That was on-the-job training. It was sink or swim.

The Astrodome project was more or less the same thing. I mean I had a huge set of plans, the architectural plans, the mechanical, the electrical, and a great big thick book of specifications. I went to the job meetings and just learned enough as I was going along to represent the club and take care of what had to be done. But, it was a fascinating experience.

BizBall: Roy Hofheinz was quite an extraordinary man… lawyer at 19… state legislator at 22… judge at 24, and Mayor of Houston at 40, yet only about a decade in baseball. You worked side-by-side with him; can you give us some insight into Hofheinz, the man, as well as any anecdotal stories about him?

SMITH: Just a fascinating man, a real dynamo, the most eloquent speaker I ever heard in my life—just a master salesman, a master showman. I suspect in your research you’ve seen what he did with his design—and the Astrodome was his concept. The architect and engineers had to draw the plans, but this was Hofheinz’s vision and it was absolutely Roy Hofheinzmagnificent—his sense of show-biz. He was a big fan of the circus and, later on in life, actually bought Ringling Brothers and Barnum & Bailey circus and operated that for awhile. He carried out these themes in all of his homes and his offices. He was just a fantastic salesman.

You’ve certainly heard about the Astroturf– stories when we ran into problems with the grass because of the skylights, the lack of light, the lack of water. We had to find a solution to that. Hofheinz had me go out and that’s when we came across Astroturf. When I reported back to him and we brought the people in from Chemstrand and, when they named a price, the Judge said, “That’s exactly what I had in mind for the advertising rights and publicity for you.” He was always thinking. He was a master of radio and television. A master of salesmanship.

We were the first club with, I believe, what was referred to as “luxury suites”. That was an afterthought, after the dome was already under construction. That was something that Hofheinz and the club paid for themselves when we added the skyboxes at the top of the dome on the ninth level. He was the first one to think of seat options and we never actually exercised that concept, but today, of course, it’s commonplace. He was just a step ahead as a promoter, as a showman and as a salesman.

BizBall: That touches on my next question. A great many facets of the current ballpark design are owed to that design of the Astrodome. The design for a Sky Dome, The Trailblazer and Astrodome Clubs, to the computerized scoreboards that we take for granted today. How were these ground-breaking ideas that Hofheinz was proposing received? How do you think the ownership establishment of the other clubs viewed these radical ideas?

SMITH: I think initially that when he came up with the dome idea and had to sell that to the National League owners—again, if he hadn’t been such a fantastic speaker and salesman, I’m not sure he could have carried it out, because that was, I was about to say ‘radical’, I’mAstrodome not sure ‘radical’ is the proper term for it but certainly a ‘unique’ idea and concern among baseball purists and traditionalists about playing baseball indoors. How’s the ball going to carry? Then when we went to Astroturf and what not, I really think that if we hadn’t tried natural grass to begin with, I think we had to do that regardless of whether it was going to work or not. After you had the dome open if the grass didn’t survive and you went to something else, there wasn’t any alternative. I think people were in awe of what he did. I think sometimes they were skeptical, but, again, as you’ve traced his political career and his accomplishments at such an early age from the standpoint of county judge and mayor and legislator and so on. He just accomplished so many things. He was several steps ahead of everybody. I think at first it was viewed maybe with alarm or concern and whatnot, but, as things worked out, I think people marveled at it.

BizBall: How did the name “Earthmen“ evolve for the ground crew at the Astrodome?

SMITH: This was in the final stages of the construction, shortly before Opening Day. I was out in the Stadium tending to things, checking on things and so on. I went back upstairs to the Judge’s suite. At about this time, he had started his quarters in the right field section and I joined the Judge and some other people up there. This was later in the hours and they were discussing various things—I forget exactly what it was. They were making some comment about the entire theme of the Space Age with the uniforms. I was frankly being facetious; I was being sarcastic. “I guess we can call the ground “the Earth,” we’ll call them ‘Earthmen’.” I just thought it was a play on words, but he liked it, picked up on it. That’s how it became the “Earthmen”.

BizBall: Back to your position as GM of the Astros… You seemed to have a clear structure to how you built teams in terms of salaries in the ‘70s. You often had incentive clauses within your contracts, which allowed you to keep the base low, often in the $200,000 range. The deal that John J. McMullen did for Nolan Ryan completely broke with this structure you had and, in the process, gave baseball the first $1 million contact, which set a precedent and opened up the glass ceiling for salaries.

Can you take us back to that deal, and what your reaction was to it?

SMITH: When I came back to Houston, for the most part, the club was being operated by the creditors, GE Credit and Ford Motor Credit. So, basically, any dollar we spent we had to find or save somewhere else. They were just interested in preserving asset value. When I came back from the Yankees in August, 1975, remember, that was a year that the Astros finished 43 ½ games out; so we had a lot of work to do and we didn’t have a lot of money to spend. You just try to put it together and I’ve always been interested– I’m not a lawyer but I’ve always been interested in law and contracts and those kind of things. I believe we were the first club to write an option clause for players. I wrote one for Ken Boswell, who was at that time a utility player and pinch hitter for us. We didn’t know how long we’d need his services, but I thought he was a valuable guy, so I wrote a contract and gave a consideration of $5000 for an option on his services for the second year. I’m not dead certain of this, but I had never seen any options clauses before that.

I felt that players’ performances, and I still do, that they [the contracts] should be tied to performance, obviously. You don’t always have that benefit but that’s why I went to contingency clauses. As a matter of fact, I went to New York and spoke to Commissioner Bowie Kuhn and his advisors and staff. I maintained then, and I still do, that performances bonuses and contingency clauses in contracts should not be limited or restricted as they are today to innings pitched or games started or total plate appearances. You always negotiate on wins and saves and RBIs and home runs and batting averages, and so on and so forth. I still maintain that’s the way performance and contingency clauses should be based. The argument against it is, “Well, you put too much pressure on the manager.” You have the same thing today, if you have a guy down at the end of the season that needs two more starts before the option kicks in. I’m sure you’ve read enough about those issues that have arisen as a result of that. But, that was sort of my theme.

In ’79, we had J.R. Richard, and Jose Cruz who were both going to be free agents. Those were long and difficult negotiations. Tom Reich and I negotiated the J.R contract for the whole season. Obviously, as you understand, the clock is important. It provides leverage for the most part to the player and his representative. Tom and I hadn’t always worked well Nolan Ryantogether, but he’s got a job to do. J.R. went down to the wire. We didn’t finalize that until the World Series– the Pittsburgh-Baltimore World Series. We finalized it in Pittsburgh shortly before J.R. would have been out on the market. I’d gotten through the same thing with Cruz. We had that one done by then, but that had been a long, protracted negotiation. J.R.’s, as I recall, I had him signed to a base salary of $200,000. It was a long one, it was going to be a five-year contract with some with deferred compensation, a lot of incentives based into it. Obviously, you base some things on starts, awards, honors and whatever you can write. It gave him the potential, the chance, to realize a great deal more money. Tom was concerned about providing something for J.R. with something at the end of his baseball career, which is why we had the deferred comp in there.

But then, when the Nolan Ryan negotiation came along, that was a million dollar base salary. This was shortly after McMullen and I came to a parting of the ways. But just before that, obviously Tom Reich and J.R. were very upset. J.R., to me. was the dominant pitcher in the game in 1979. That was an issue. McMulllen ultimately had to tear up the Richard contract and rewrite it and vest most of the performance bonuses in base salary. Then, of course, unfortunately J.R. was stricken during the 1980 season. So, from a salary standpoint, instead of $200,000 he would have been making [more], which ultimately proved to be to his benefit. Obviously, he was entitled to the rewritten contract.

BizBall: Let’s jump forward to another stadium you had a large part in, the current facility that the Astros use, Minute Maid Park. “Tal’s Hill” shows just how much influence you had on the design of the facility. The 10-degree incline in centerfield is something wholly unique to Minute Maid Park and something that has garnered considerable conversation from both purists and those following ballpark architecture.

Can you walk us through how you came up with that concept, and what if any hurdles you had selling the design aspect, and what type of dynamic it has created now that it has been in use since 2000?

SMITH: Basically, in the planning and design stage of the stadium, there are a lot of people involved in the design team. The professionals—the architects and designers from HOK … from our staff, Drayton McLane is a real hands-on owner and was very interested in that. And Drayton and Bob McLaren, who at that time headed up the business aspects of our operation, and Pam Gardner, who is now President of Business Operations, and Rod Matwick and myself … and a lot of people involved. And we had a lot of sessions. Once the location, site, and footprint was decided, with the anchor of Union Station, and after we finalized our basic concepts such as the seating bowl and how many levels, Drayton said: “What can we do from the standpoint of the ballpark—the inside of the playing field— what can to make it unique?" As you and SABR members are, I’m somewhat of a baseball historian—perhaps not to the degree that some SABR members are. I talked about some of the things about the vines at Wrigley—about the monuments which used to be in play at Yankee Stadium--about the dimensions of ballparks from the standpoint of earlier eras such as how deep Forbes Field was.

By this time, I think I had gone back and charted field dimensions for all the existing ballparks and former ballparks. I presented this and talked about it, talked about the dirt strip between home plate and the pitcher’s mound, which used to be standard in every ballpark, and I mentioned the terraces at Crosley Field and reminded them of Fenway Park. We talked about minor league ballparks and Durham Athletic Park—a lot of places that had terraces, embankments, or unusual characteristics. I was simply laying this out there for the consideration of the people on the design team. I’m not necessarily an advocate of any particular [design]. I’m basically answering the question, “What can we do?” “ Well here are some ideas”.

The architects and designers of HOK picked up on it with an early plan. The schematics had the terrace out in center field and the dirt strip between home plate and the pitcher’s mound. I didn’t know how long it would survive.

I can recall Buck Showalter– I’m not sure what influence this had, obviously anybody who is a historian knows of the dirt strip between home plate and the pitcher’s mound. But I can recall Buck was in town doing some scouting for the Diamondbacks and the [Houston] Tal's HillChronicle had a color rendering of the schematics of the field on the front page of the paper and it showed the dirt strip. The next thing I knew, the Diamondbacks had it incorporated. That may have happened in any event. It was not all that unusual for anyone who knew anything about the former ballparks. But it also didn’t go by the wayside, because that was going to be different—because Detroit was going to incorporate it—and so we talked about flagpoles. A lot of our people wanted the flagpole in play as long as it was properly padded. I know that caused a reaction when people would see any renderings of the proposed ballpark. “You can’t have the flagpole in play.” We said: “Of course you can.” It was rather surprising, even, when we sent in the plans to MLB and got a response back about that flag pole. “There must be a mistake the flag pole’s in play.” I said, “You haven’t been to Detroit.”

I was surprised that the Hill survived. One of the architects, from a naming standpoint, in the early plans, in our meetings or references, referred to it as Tal’s Hill. There wasn’t anything else to call it and I had sort of thrown the idea out there. The name sort of stuck more as an inside reference than anything else. Obviously, today, I accuse people, “You wanted to name it [Tal’s Hill] so you would know who to blame for those who didn’t make it!” I understand it’s very, very popular with our fans and I get a lot of comments. Particularly when somebody reads something about people from other areas, I take great exception to it. Frankly, it hasn’t interfered with play at all. You’ve seen some of the pictures, probably on SportsCenter. It really hasn’t caused a problem. I see more players trip over the pitcher’s mound than I do over the hill we have in center field.

BizBall: I want to shift over to something that is a large part of this—a large part of your history and what you do now. The arbitration process is something that is, to most baseball fans, a mystical process. When the process was first put in place, the vast majority of cases were won by players or, rather, player agents.

When John McMullen let you go, you first assisted the A’s with arbitration cases with Mike Morris and Tony Armas.

Do you recall these first case, and how you approached it?

SMITH: Gene Michael—I forget the others on there—we did four cases. I’ve done some cases since– in Houston in ‘80; I helped Sandy Alderson in 1981 with their two cases.

I started getting calls when I lost my consulting practice. It was even before that. I guess I announced that in April. I had only done the Oakland stuff. I was getting calls from people who wanted to ask questions or get a little help on this and that. Dick Wagner was one. Obviously, Oakland, Roy Eisenhart, had called and that’s what got me to go out there to help them with their two cases.

That’s when I lost the consulting practice and I started getting calls. I think Jim Campbell, the GM in Detroit at the time, was the first one. He asked if I’d handle their arbitration. Well, obviously, I knew the GMs and they knew me and, as I said, maybe we had done some innovative things during our Astros days in the ‘70s with contracts, the options and the performance clauses and so on and so forth. So Campbell called and asked if I’d do it. One thing led to another. He talked to some other people and I started getting some inquiries. We ended up representing six clubs in 1982.

I put together a team. Gerry Hunsicker was part of it; Steve Mann, who had worked for Bill Wright and was brought in as an analyst in the late ‘70s for a year or so for the Astros. I put together a team of people that I knew and we lost the first case in ‘82 to Willie Mays Aikens and won the next seven, including three against Dick Moss and three for the Yankees. That sort of set us off on that.

As far as how we did it, I just have a sense of what’s important in establishing a player’s value and tried to present in a well organized, orderly fashion to an arbitrator and make the distinction between players that are arbitration eligible and those that are free agents. To me, they were two different markets at that time. I think over a period of time a lot of clubs lost sight of that and lost that advantage. That’s a long drawn out thing that I’d be happy to talk to you about at some other time. It’s a theory that worked very well until the clubs, by their own practice, killed it.

BizBall: In the early days of arbitration you seemed to adapt where others did not on management’s side of the table. You seemed to grasp that statistical analysis played a key role in presenting your case to the arbiter. Did you try and pass on what was working for you to others to try and get owners and GMs to understand how the arbitration process worked?

SMITH: At one time, we were representing 13 clubs. In one year, as you know, 1986, we handled 96 filings and actually presented 25 cases. I really suspect—at that time I think—that the union was trying to test us and see if they could break us perhaps from the standpoint of volume.

I have certain theories, beliefs and philosophies as to how to approach this and how the salary structure should be determined. Some people embraced it and others didn’t understand it, I don’t think. I think they really clouded the distinction between someone  that’s got additional service—that has six years—and has earned the right to be a free agent is different from somebody—a third-year player— eligible for salary arbitration. The Basic Agreement, to me, clearly distinguishes on service and affords and grants players various rights depending upon that service. Those rights should have different value. As I said, all that’s been clouded and, as time went on, we had to adjust because there were too many examples of clubs ignoring that or doing things that just didn’t make a whole lot of sense. You know, frankly, a lot of the problem is that Clubs are responsible for the actions of others, whether deemed appropriate or not.

BizBall: In your opinion, how often does the arbitor already know which figure he will choose—just by viewing each side’s written submission. In other words, how often does oral argument sway the arbitor?

SMITH: As you probably know, there isn’t any brief submitted in advance. While, presumably, the arbitrator comes up with this as it stands—ideally not even knowing who the player is going to be. It is basically an oral presentation backed up by your written exhibits. I’m not sure that’s generally understood. There are some arbitrators that are obviously well-informed fans that have their own opinions. That’s why I think it’s important for them not to know in advance. I don’t want them going to a scouting notebook or something of that nature and form their conclusions based on what somebody else has written. I think they should come in as much as possible with an open mind and listen to the evidence that is presented.

I’m sure we’re all human and, if it’s a prominent player, it’s tough to win cases with prominent players. I still maintain, along with everyone in the room, that we won the case with Don Mattingly with the Yankees. I can recall leaving the hearing and walking down the street with union reps and agents and everything else and everybody more or less conceded that the club had prevailed, not because Mattingly wasn’t a great player—he was a great player—it’s a question of what’s the appropriate value. Yet, when we got the decision, it was in favor of the player. It was a case heard in New York with a New York arbitrator. Those things happen.

I think the decisions in those days prior to the institution of a panel, I think if you were to poll both sides—the union reps or the agents, and the club practitioners—I’m not sure (before the decision) that they would get half of them right. We all have a sense you go in Don Mattinglyas an advocate, you present your case and you’ve got a pretty good idea as to whether won or not. But, sometimes the arbitrator didn’t see it the same way and you get surprises on both sides. We got some wins—some calls for us—that really surprised us.

BizBall: Sabermetrics, especially among the baseball community, is fairly well known, but you started to collect data and present that with computer analysis. In the process, I think that some people believe that there’s just this overwhelming flow of statistical analysis that is done. Is it a case where actually ‘less is more’ in some cases? You’re dealing with arbitrators who may not fully understand baseball.

SMITH: As a standpoint? I think that very clearly you run the risk of overkill. You’ve got to keep this pretty basic. In the first place, you’ve only got an hour. It is not an exercise that is really designed for some of the more sophisticated or advanced sabermetricians. It’s got to be more fundamental and basic than that; otherwise you’ll confuse the issue. You still get back to comparing one player to another, as to what the salary should be and so on. I think you’ve got to be very, very careful. I’ve got an appreciation for sophisticated statistics, but I don’t think that’s the exercise that’s involved when you get into arbitration.

BizBall: There seems to be—and maybe this is just a cycle—there seems to be a decline in cases that are going to hearing. I can only think of three this season. Why do you think there has been a decline or do you just think it’s just the way this off-season cycle went?

SMITH: Well, it may be somewhat of a cycle. It had seemed that one group this year didn’t settle, that went down to the wire; as a matter of fact, the actual cases were relief pitchers and all the late settlements seemed to be relief pitchers and not the front line closers. To some degree that goes in cycles, because there have been settlements among a certain group—whether it’s the MLS 3 relief pitchers which was basically the group that was late in getting issues resolved. It sort of impacts everybody in that class. It’s a time-consuming process.

You’d have to talk to agents. Some agents enjoy the process, but I think there’s risk for agents. If they lose a case, then they risk losing the client. If they win the case, it’s probably because the player feels that he’s a very good player. From a club standpoint, there’s some tendency to feel that they don’t want to subject the player to it. I don’t think it’s all that negative. We’ve done almost 150 cases, I think, and I can only recall two or three where I thought there was any animosity and so on. I think the tone is really established. To me it’s nothing more than an ongoing discussion or debate, the same as you would have in negotiations, except for the fact that it’s being presented to a third party. It’s not one where you have to be derisive or castigate the player or anything else. I mean the numbers are the numbers. When you’re negotiating, if a guy hit .220 or .235 you bring that out in your negotiations. If he’s got an ERA of 5.00, you’re telling the agent that; you’re telling the player that. So now your simply telling that to a third party. I don’t think it has to be denigrating.

There are some people that think that it’s just not in the club’s best interests to subject the player to that. I don’t necessarily subscribe to that. I don’t think there’s all that much harm done. I still see many players that we’ve arbitrated against. Of course, everybody likes to win. I like to win; the player likes to win. But I don’t think it’s affected our relationships or dealings. They still go out of their way in most cases to speak. Barry Bonds speaks to me. We beat Bonds twice and Barry and I still kid—you may call it agitate about it. I don’t think it has any lasting consequences. Most of them will say, “I still came out ahead anyway.” Bobby Bonilla—I worked with Bobby twice and I won both of those cases—now works with the Union. When I see him during arbitration season, he’ll sort of joke about it and say, “I still came out way ahead because the money’s so great to begin with.”

BizBall: What’s the most memorable case that you were involved in?

SMITH: Oh boy, that’s hard to say. I mean it was interesting doing the Bonds and Bonilla cases. The Bonds case is one of those players. Mattingly is one of the toughest losses, because I have great respect for Don as a player, I clearly thought we won that case. I don’t know if I can single out one over the other. We’ve done so many over the years. We’ve been upset about some of the calls, some of the decisions and what not, but it sort of evens out because you win some cases you didn’t think you were going to win.

BizBall: Your son, Randy, has followed in your footsteps, and has been a GM of the Padres and the Tigers. You’ve conducted some trades with them and so, I have to ask, is it a thin line dealing with family or does it provide an advantage for both parties?

SMITH: Oh, I think it provides an advantage. For the most part, I’ve always approached trades…I don’t think you’re fooling anybody or snookering anybody. I’ve always tried to take a direct approach. I’ve tried to sit down and figure out to begin with what I need, where I might get it, and what makes sense to that club. You try to do the matches. I don’t think you make significant trades by necessarily being smarter than somebody else. I think maybe if you do more research and work harder…. I think that most of the trades were ones that made sense to both clubs. Ideally, that’s the way it should be.

The deals we made with San Diego and Detroit were pretty much the same way. What do the Padres need? What do we need? What’s surplus? What’s expendable? What can they do? and so on. And that’s how they come about. You sit down and have an open discussion. Frankly, trades I made—whether it was Bing Devine, Pat Gillick, or Lou Gorman, or anyone else over the years—were pretty much the same way.

When I need a shortstop…say Craig Reynolds is a promising young player in Seattle. I can see where he might be expendable to them. What do they need? I’ve got Floyd Bannister; we’ve got pitching depth. Bannister should be attractive. Lou Gorman made that deal in a very few minutes; …the same thing when I was dealing with Bing Devine or Pat Gillick or anybody else. I think if you’re candid and objective…. You’re not trying to fool anybody. You’re trying to do something that presumably will help you and, perhaps, help the other club. It was a whole lot easier with Randy; I guess he sort of did it the same way I did.

BizBall: Here we are in 2005 and there were two high profile free agents this past off-season for the Astros. You had to deal with Carlos Beltran and the other was Roger Clemens. How tough were the negotiations with Beltran? How do you feel about retaining Clemens?

SMITH: Oh, we’re delighted to have Roger. I hoped that he would decide to continue his career. He’s still one of the very best pitchers in the game and, arguably, one of the greatest pitchers of all time. It’s an ideal arrangement for him. He had a fantastic year last year-an exciting season. He’s at home. We’ve been able to work it out where, when he’s not pitching, he’s able to spend some time with his kids and see them play and spend some time with his [now late] mother. As it stands, we were certainly hoping that Roger would reach a decision where he would want to continue playing. Obviously he did. From a negotiation standpoint—obviously he’s a great pitcher and his representatives, Randy and Roger ClemensAlan Hendricks, recognize that. Just the way the Basic Agreement is constructed, they had the advantage of using the arbitration process. Roger was not yet ready to make a decision as to whether he was going to continue or not. So, from our standpoint we had to offer arbitration or foreclose the possibility of negotiating with him, which we couldn’t do. So obviously, that helped to set the value.

The Beltran negotiations, they really didn’t get to any meaningful dialogue until the final hour before the deadline that we faced. It’s just tough to do a deal of that magnitude in the final hour. Drayton asked on many occasions if we could go visit with Carlos in Puerto Rico—if we could talk to him. We were denied that opportunity and told that, if we did, that would foreclose any negotiation with Carlos and perhaps some others down the road. Again, when you have a situation like that, the agent and the player set ground rules of what we could do.

Some people have suggested, “Well, you should have issued an ultimatum.” That’s all well and good. That doesn’t appear to me to be the right thing to do to your fans … to just foreclose any possibility. I don’t think Scott Boras would have reacted to any ultimatum that we might have established as far as “This offer is good until December 1, or December 10….” I don’t think that would have worked. All we would have done at that point is, with absolute certainty, denied the Astros any opportunity. As it was, I’m not sure how great an opportunity we had. It didn’t work out for us. But I don’t think there’s anything, in retrospect, we could have really done other than perhaps close the doors earlier, write it off and go in another direction. We wanted to get Carlos, if at all possible, but that’s the course we chose.

BizBall: What do you like about SABR? And, making a case for it for those who are not members, what do you think they gain from it?

SMITH: Well, I regret that I didn’t have the opportunity or time to be more involved. In the early years, I actually served as an Officer and I enjoyed that. I’ve got great respect for the  people in SABR. Obviously, we share a common interest. The research work and the literary efforts by SABR members are extraordinary. That’s the principal benefit I get out of it today. I’ve been unable to attend the annual conventions in the last several years. I hope that, as time goes on, perhaps I can pick that up again.

I heartily endorse SABR to anybody that has baseball interest. From the standpoint of the local regional meetings, the national convention, and the publications, the research, I just think it’s a fantastic association for anybody that has a deep and abiding interest in the game. I certainly encourage anybody to join. As I said, I wish I was able to participate to a greater degree, and perhaps down the road I will be able to.

The following interview was originally published on the SABR Business of Baseball website, and can be read here: SABR Business of Baseball Interviews Page

Interview conducted by Maury Brown on 5/16/05.
Transcribed by Steven Charnick and Maury Brown.
Edited by John Ruoff.

 
 
Banner

Poll

Should MLB Force Jeffery Loria to Sell the Marlins?
 


geriforte syrup prices cvs micardis best price actos saturday delivery price of alesse in canada decadron tablets canada canadian pharmacy buy clonidine nexium pills prices generic levitra online coupon what is uroxatral prescribed for canada pharmacy review indian pharmacy doxycycline does doxycycline hyclate 100mg work for acne what does atarax contain vigra on line review prescription card cheap nexium where to buy synthroid with visa what is endep 25 mg used for proventil hfa generic name can you buy over counter chloroquine looking cheap generic diclofenac list of tesco stores selling ashwagandha cialis viagra levitra side effects nizoral 20mg tab propecia pharmacy cost himcocid order canada can buy yasmin online didronel tablets uses over the counter medicine equivalent to nexium pfizer viagra price in delhi prevacid online pay paypal buy prilosec in uk arava pediatric dose phenergan 25 mg prices order clonidine 2 mg gregory z pack specs current price tadacip diakof online forum cheapest como comprar aciclovir is there a drug comparative to elocon mexican pharmacy no prescription eulexin anacin cost comparison purchase cheap generic order fincar online cabgolin for sale buy revatio pills in the us celebrex sales malegra fxt from canada aristocort pharmacy order pliva 433 pill imprint where can i buy alli weight loss aid zithromax medicine sinus comprar roaccutane online schott suprax glass combivent spain cozaar medication coupons clomid on line purchase how to import zebeta forest pharmaceuticals patient assistance program lexapro cialysis canada 4 day shipping when will viagra be off patent retino-a cream 0,025 price acyclovir pregnancy category buy generic tetracycline online pharmacies prednisone rx side effects purchasing zithromax online serophene pill shop discount code sinequan for sale australia reviews on revatio himcolin sale prescription where amaryllis grow bloom purchase lithium ion battery charger order levitra professional canadian teva usa metformin best place to buy cymbalta in canada seroxat side effects fatigue propranolol dose hyperthyroidism where to buy atacand original blopress online requip in the uk long term side effects of colchicine where can i get prednisone from where purchase pariet valtrex without prescription canada drugs safe to buy generic kamagra from uk tamoxifen men new canadian family visa uk buy motilium without prescription cordarone pharmacies lasuna capsules insulin receptor function micronase lawsuit settlements fastest ralista uk delivery maximum valtrex dose allopurinol ratiopharm 100 mg tabletten buy viagra jelly without a script tenormin drugstore does ampicillin cause weight gain ventolin nebules 2.5mg dosage what does flonase help with drugs flagyl pills dogs buy suhagra fast shipping buy actonel boots zebeta to buy in england levofloxacin 500 mg dosage cialis jelly without a script remeron overdose emedicine where to buy doxycycline in bangkok mexican pharmacy no prescription arjuna stopping depo provera weight loss lopressor cheap price order diovan 80 mg buy phenamax with paypal prometrium buy canada buy astelin cheap atacand on line no script metformin 500 mg price walmart buy voveran sr 5 buy genuine flovent uk side effects of nitrofurantoin tablets cipro uses for dogs blopress low dose birth control diflucan drug schedule order altace no prescription needed overnight aciphex online pharmacy buy cialis overnight delivery can we trust tulasi online buy alli 140 uk where to buy propranolol with mastercard viagra sublingual by mail order tretinoin 0,05 for sale what is altace used for online generic keflex purchasing lexapro online micardis no prescription compare prices lov cost grifulvin v pediatric benadryl dose by weight cost of zyrtec at cvs viagra soft where to get how much metformin to take for pcos reviews forum slimming tablets alli over the counter erexin-v erexor shelf life buy zetia paypal accepted buy actos without a prescription from canadian pharmacy is there a generic form of lexapro meri adalat 2001 film why has doxycycline price increase donde comprar altace apcalis sx sold over counter what is the clomiphene citrate challenge test brand cialis mg usa canadian online pharmacy for lopressor cheapest place to buy kamagra letrozole tablets usp side effects buy brand zyban how much does generic paxil cost without insurance seroquel lawsuit settlements 100 mg bactrim erexin without a prescription from us asacol enema 4g can you buy viagra plus online cialis commercial new glasses aspirin price comparison buy mobic online amazon diclofenac genericon gel tegretol buy on line comprar aceon original orlistat delivered to your home dutas woldwide shipping how to get finax drug is yasmin a prescription drug generic levitra plus safe viagra pharmacies mexico how to get zanaflex on line can u buy zithromax over counter side effects of panax ginseng extract artane canada overnight delivery atarax over the counter australia how much is moduretic tablets atarax over counter medication inderal la zyban medication order como usar feldene cheap isoniazid india yasmin weight gain or loss furosemide max dose cheap chloromycetin sale uk luvox medicine children what is diclofenac sodium enteric coated tablets 50mg lamisil overseas safe buy retin-a 0,05 online brand advair diskus for sale philippines can you buy avapro online prescription buy retin a 0 025 no prescription brand amoxil for sale australia micardis for dogs buy c 20 pill ceftin drug in germany pharmacy mentax doctors online cefixime uk buy buy claritin eye drops generic cialis safety actoplus met in canada walmart vs costco drug prices minipress no prescription needed side effects of diovan hct 80 when will nexium be available in generic form buying kamagra gold from canada no prescription sertralina 50 mg efectos cost of claritin without insurance metformin and cold medicine can you buy cialis jelly in ireland levitra valtrex pharmacy canada cheap cialis professional free delivery cheap acticin uk view topic generic buy plendil without rx buy coumadin online india best site to buy periactin buy proscar tablets online roxithromycin tablets 300mg biaxsig imitrex usa sale 123 reg review dapoxetine prices craigslist apartments for rent long island new york viagra no prrescription himalaya mentat syrup can i cut a 20mg cialis in half buy periactin tablets online cordarone generic release date clonidine online overnight shipping azax 500 ranbaxy is for what allopurinol drug in usa pharmacy where to buy motrin online acquistare singulair in italia low cost amantadine pharmacy bactrim pas cher italie rx drugs online review benadryl cough syrup india order anafranil lowest price how to use elimite cream cheap erythromycin buy online online sale of prevacid best drugstore makeup brushes set comprar avodart pela internet diarex reviews betapace user reviews cheap drugs online cane you buy viagra sublingual in ireland canadian hyaluronic acid made in usa tablets cheap rx meds buy lukol online usa generic sinequan usa pharmacy betoptic delivery uk septilin in the uk pharmacy has best price voveran coumadin in usa order calcium carbonate online tenormin noprescrition needed uk online pharmacy trihexyphenidyl hcl side effects side effects of crestor 20 mg buy meclizine paypal accepted deltasone without a script med cab zerit what is sinequan pills used for we buy any car uk lotensin woldwide shipping buy zyban for daily use carafate shoppers drug mart how to by meclizine online aleve over counter dose v-gel usa best place to order cialis online precipitated calcium carbonate suppliers india benicar coupon blogs best brand prices sildenafil viagra online order benzac canada buy xeloda online treatment of arthritis in dogs genuine atorlip-10 best price buy generic lanoxin online with prescription simvastatin interactions fda proventil for sale prescription buy cialis cheap generic abana doctors online generic lynoral safe generic brand for provera buy liv 52 online india comprar acai em lisboa buy cialis canadian pharmacy phenergan buy uk medicine called omnicef how to get lopressor drug comprar pomada benzac liquid propranolol review where can i get penegra pills order tegretol online depakote er dosage for bipolar what is the primary action of orlistat a weight-loss drug ic pravastatin sodium 40 mg tab zebeta doctors online is cialis available over the counter in canada acai berry detox discount coupon cheap skelaxin usa buy nizoral mg aciclovir medication where to buy where to get nizoral 2 diovan prescription gazeta kosovarja numri i fundit what type of medicine is digoxin generic aceon 400 mg most reliable place to buy albendazole online where to buy cardizem buy valtrex online mastercard desyrel next day buy brand levitra professional get free samples viagra what is the medicine bactelan used for to buy avapro in uk lamisil delivered to your home trazodone from mylan list of tesco stores selling fosamax is zoloft generic gluten free hair salon black belt viagra online no prescription order lamisil prilosec next day shipping pharmacie en ligne france fiable buy viagra now online cheapest canadian drugs buy shatavari powder buy aspirin india buy cordarone fast shipping erexin-v rx what is levitra 10mg what is the classification for xalatan buy lasix with visa premarin online canada cheap dilantin 30 mg pfizer generic birth control effective dose topamax weight loss diclofenac cream price donde conseguir viagra sin receta buenos aires can you get epivir-hbv viagra site fiable will doctors prescribe viagra to women is it safe to buy antidepressants online buy alli diet pills england canada pharmacy voltaren injection for back pain buy clozaril from india where to get morning after pill uk buy atorlip-5 online usa hydrochlorothiazide australia buy acai berry over counter azithromycin is used to treat what std lamisil delivery london substitute for valtrex tegretol prolonged release differin gel 0.1 w/w buy vermox uk online danazol itp mechanism diamox buy on line geriforte syrup order canada proscar prices at costco irbesartan bnf bupropion pharmacy prices best generic olanzapine review how to take tretinoin 0,05 mg buy premarin 40 losec mups side effects infants buy evecare fast shipping mail order generic cytotec diovan sales 2009 generic buy bactrim in australia canadian prescription drugs information is it possible to buy viagra online free pak online chat viagra from india safe buy claritin in singapore zoloft medication where to buy pramipexole dihydrochloride usp monograph do any male enhancement drugs work doxycycline monohydrate tablets brand cialis shortage 2012 best cialis professional prices pharmacy tadalafil discount cardura mg tetracycline birth control online canada geriforte syrup brands india buy himplasia online usa is there a difference between valtrex and generic is ayurslim a prescription drug estradiol blood test fertility brand viramune buy buy doxazosin online from canada claritin ingredients gluten free fluoxetine pct buy florinef lawsuit canada how to buy brand name fosomax 70 online buy lopid without a prescription from canadian pharmacy legitimate no prescrition pharmacys nike air max 95 womens running shoes online no prescription generic antibiotics buy viramune online cheap buy orlistat online no prescription usa where to get minomycin pct penegra online usa no prescription is it safe to order cafergot kamagra tablets for sale uk floxin without a script buy rumalaya forte online at canada pharmacy is mail order tadacip safe bentyl canadian source dosage for nitroglycerin tablets tulasi audio songs online best place to buy antivert advair diskus lawsuit settlements generic yasmin birth control ingredients buy saw palmetto tablets online best rated us no prescription parmacys generic equivalent for flovent where to get lithium ore maplesea misoprostol dosage for pph vice i took female viagra brand cytotec buy can you buy cialis professional in ireland 25mg prescription what date did singulair go generic home insurance building canadian pharmacy online cialis prescription toradol recreational uses periactin online forum prescription click here retin-a micro side effects zantac liquid infants over counter birth control pills propranolol warfarin dosage chart does propecia help regrow hair lok adalat in india buy cheap differin online onde comprar shampoo nizoral mojo sex pill reviews buy mentax without rx where to colchicine prescription zoloft price without insurance pharmacie de garde luxembourg centre buy altace paypal zofran online australia what kind of drug is antabuse how to order vasotec trental next day shipping valacyclovir side effects weight gain online pharmacy adderall canada is there a generic form of zocor where can i buy prescription drugs online uk citalopram hbr 40 mg tablet side effects order kamagra chewable tablets generic price allopurinol 100mg domperidone motilium purchase order methotrexate injection buy mevacor capsules naprosyn for sale uk generic allegra d target present sales of januvia in india purchase generic keppra buy glucophage perth australia hydrochlorothiazide sale online no prescription motilium over the counter uk cephalexin price australia chloroquine dose schedule prilosec delivered to your home keppra medication order non prescription zantac ayurslim suppositories buy abana mg buy how to buy leukeran can you order zyban bayer low dose aspirin coupons 2011 anti anxiety medication benfotiamine shoppers drug mart xenical shop australia asthma medicatioons for sale zebeta canada prescription robaxin 500mg street value pharmacy price alesse online kamagra precio mexico order calan online with visa best place buy shallaki pct purchase generic rosuvastatin how often can you take zyrtec 10 mg all types brand levitra pills saroten nebenwirkungen alkohol insurance age awards 2013 how to use flonase spray buy floxin 50 synthroid shop how much does it cost to get into club liv buy cheap bystolic pills no prescription mircette sale toradol side effects uk generic haridra usa pharmacy side effects women taking finasteride lowest priced lotrisone acai pills weight loss reviews over the counter kamagra soft retin a 0.1 cream works cheap sildenafil uk erythromycin acne gel review seroquel india cost of zofran in canada ic clonidine hcl 0.1 mg tablet pain medication indocin how to use floxin otic glucophage common side effects cialis rezeptfrei paypal albendazole without prescription miami can you buy uroxatral citalopram cheap can you order alavert loratadine drowsy list of tesco stores selling indinavir mobic 15 mg picture aqua card bank details generico do allegra d buy genuine renagel uk canadian pharmacy lipitor without prescription buy generic alli online can you order vpxl trileptal liquid cost current price albenza lipitor atorvastatin muscle pain arthritis in fingers at young age advair 500 coupon printable best price malegra fxt confido lawsuit canada comprar levitra super active original voveran without a prescription is cialis safe to take with alcohol why is there a shortage of deltasone cotton pharmacy los algodones what type of medicine is buspar cyklokapron women buy mexican pharmacy no prescription starlix current price lotensin why has minocin been discontinued what is the dosage for benadryl for adults flomax legal us atorlip-20 lawsuit buy ventolin online no prescription united states how to buy bony acai strongest pain pills list wellbutrin sr for purchase without a prescription buy zebeta low cheap price purchase hydrea 1 purchase aciclovir tablets online herpes zithromax gonorrhea and chlamydia treatment order trileptal medication by mail metoprolol side effect fatigue pharmacy viagra prices uk where to buy live fish keppra 10 mg cost what does seroquel do to serotonin how to buy brand advair diskus in london purchase accutane 20 mg online methylprednisolone cost comparison enhancement buy chloramphenicol online propecia results asian adalat order by phone best place buy revatio pct danazol tablets side effects cholestoplex for men in usa buy cheap amoxil in usa buy wellbutrin sr tablets australia complete list of birth control pills purchase brand amoxil lowest price what does lithium treat ciplox tablets for sale cialis online pharmacy uk donde comprar levitra en barcelona how much does zofran cost at cvs voveran ships from india generic name for serophene actos prices reviews of online pharmacies xanax percocet uk name 40 mg levitra generic pharmacies anxiety buy atarax us pharmacy online norvasc canadian allies wwii levaquin generic brand famvir how to buy proventil lawsuit canada saw palmetto tablets nz myambutol ethambutol hcl ou acheter du viagra au quebec eulexin in croatia tenormin dosage for hypertension metacam meloxicam for cats a good web page to buy lamisil with no script can order acticin online rumalaya rx buy levitra super active online usa what are some household pills that will get you high buy flonase 15mg online what is the generic name for avalide cheap clomid online no prescription clomiphene purchase acticin pills cozaar shipping overseas eulexin for men sale in uk how much will vasotec cost what is levofloxacin tablets used for dieta culturismo femenino what diseases is prednisone used to treat viagra online 3 days shipping prednisolone purchase uk cialis 5 mg costo in farmacia trazodone looking for online no prescription generic medrol drugs buy finax mg online famvir uk brand name generic lexapro 2011 nizagara without prescription medication is advair diskus a steroid where to get dilantin pct medrol buy online mexico parlodel for sale australia buy retino-a cream 0,025 in india online prandin mechanism of action does paxil always cause weight gain how to take abilify discmelt atacand hct side effects amsa fast orlistat lamisil prescription coupon antivert tablets used order indinavir tablets trimox generic name viagra patent expiration date wiki buy anacin from mexico online generic for actos buy himcocid paypal minipress refill pack yasmin 100mg tablet procardia canada overnight delivery 1000 games minecraft ciali brand+on line shopping buy aricept uk dosage for valtrex for cold sores frumil 40 mg best prices prandin online repaglinide metoclopramide women buy order arimidex from australia without prescription yasmin mogahed depression how to buy acai force max abilify over the counter online buy synthroid 50 mcg trazodone cheap price buy generic flovent buy dapoxetine mg indian pharmacy motrin cheapest viagra pills online what is etodolac used for pain ordering amaryl dosage cephalexin 500mg generic keflex generic wellbutrin xl and weight gain septilin prices usa suppliers of luvox in us vanuatu pharmacy apo salvent vs ventolin buy skelaxin overseas all types of drugs and effects cheapest trazodone paypal buy tadacip overseas amaryl 100mg buy purchase cheap order lamisil without best price cialis tegretol generic equivalent cost of generic imitrex without insurance olanzapine better than haloperidol can i get cardizem online pharmacy no prescription needed orlistat order accutane online yahoo luvox mais barato comprar benzac en argentina beta blocker toprol side effects ambien erowid dose cheap augmentin free delivery levitra producer india atorlip-10 in the uk zyrtec over the couter viagra sublingual australia pharmacy actos comerciales derecho comercial what is periactin for cats is allegra d over the counter decongestant buy over the counter pariet online depo provera weight gain after stopping zovirax shoppers drug mart l-tryptophan delivery order lasix online uk himalaya purim reviews does metoclopramide make you gain weight myambutol uk online get plavix las vegas there generic leukeran is there a generic equivalent for singulair buy ditropan lowest price citalopram withdrawal symptoms alli weight loss amazon uk pharmacy house st leonards metoprolol beta blocker and hair loss what doses does lisinopril-hctz come in clomid tablets after steroids purchase generic adalat parlodel tablets generic estrace no prescription buy cheap propecia canada buy roxithromycin from canada how to get lipothin in australia protonix 40 mg reviews hyaluronic acid supplements reviews skin what drug category is rumalaya forte unisom without a script avapro order on web online pharmacy uk rocaltrol healthcare alliance pharmacy discount card bbb lamisil prescription cost ordering zanaflex india generic pills for minomycin does zoloft have a shelf life what is anastrozole used for is it illegal to order generic ditropan lowest price lithium batteries order augmentin from mexico without prescription accutane acne treatment before after buy brand atorlip-10 cafergot in canada where can i buy decadron buy prevacid pills dilantin medicine children "retin-a" buy site:.uk best time of day to take crestor medication actoplus met on line purchase indian generics online brand viagra lasuna online order buy micardis 15mg online can 10mg of celexa be effective doxycycline hyclate acne medication actonel overnight delivery what is tofranil tablets used for where to get levothroid prometrium compounding pharmacy where to buy cheap generic liposafe bronkaid caffeine pills and aspirin bystolic drugstore.com order kamagra from india buy motilium online overnight buy lasuna tablets online venta de viagra en farmacias sin receta generic doxycycline paypal allopurinol 100 mg reviews order us buy coumadin without non narcotic pain meds chronic pain search engines google gabapentine no script low price uroxatral uk aripiprazole buy online accutane 5 mg day non prescription levitra super active what is fluoxetine lithium grease uses generic cabgolin india what does cardizem cd mean is generic tadalis sx effective sarafem 20mg tab buy lotensin hong kong purchase singulair buy duphalac online amazon aurochem pharmaceuticals india pvt ltd buy zoloft online no prescription 2 mg propecia per day buy antivert patch compare prices augmentin purchasing glucotrol xl online suppliers of phexin in us ultra low dose eulexin buy voltaren mg online viagra with prescription by doctor best anafranil prices relafen generic available list of all drugstore makeup brands mycelex-g where to get revia buy on line colchicine australian prescriber buy cirpro pills what is detrol zetia pills sweat cyclomen danazol side effects cost of diabecon buying sustiva in manchester best price for viagra uk safe daily dose cialis avalide in usa brand name calan online prilosec coupons april 2012 buy cardizem with no script noroxin film tablet 400 mg 14 tb bentyl pharmacies approved spastic colon tofranil 100 maximum levothyroxine dosage micardis without a script generic cialis tadalafil best buys kamagrashop cheap generic ampicillin online actoplus met suppliers overseas digoxin perth australia where to get brahmi pct reglan without prescription canada eldepryl uk brand name aspirin dose bnf actoplus met xr discount tetracycline dog medication over the counter cure for chlamydia in men skelaxin dose information retin-a 0,05 order online valsartan 80 mg side effects unisom side effects provera pills to delay period low price isoptin uk zoloft sales 2009 cytoxan canadian pharmacy buy cheap tadalafil uk nitrofurantoin canada head office antibiotics for chest infection without penicillin bula atacand hct 16/12 5 nexium 40 mg price india american allies list how to use dapoxetine diovan components how to order lopid nexium oral suspension spc erexor canada prescription sominex prices cvs how to use himplasia prescription drug apcalis sx acquistare cialis super active in italia best online pharmacy generic purim astelin discount voucher viagra sales uk lowest price trimox buspar tablets from buy where can i order strattera cheap allegra allergic prescription online indian pharmacy buy capoten in usa is mononessa a generic of ortho tri cyclen malegra fxt lawsuit settlements take silver slimming tablets ordering low dose prilosec spc glimepiride tablets best place to buy crestor online i pill adalat website keftab brand positioning kamagra chewable brand positioning purchase diarex cheap can prednisone 5 mg get you high dulcolax laxative tablets for women reviews 3 key components healthy weight management program buy abana uk acquisto nexium sicuro online buy coumadin paypal accepted indian pharmacy benfotiamine traditional chinese medicine ginseng generic drug mestinon is generic finasteride as good as propecia tinidazole pharmacy online doxazosin to buy from europe celebrex without prescription in canada can i buy diclofenac clomiphene citrate 50 mg men side effects lortab uk fertomid how to buy cheap alligator clips wholesale decadron online overnight comprar roacutan pela internet levitra no prescription needed exelon parches comprar lithium overnight shipping cheap para que se usa el claritin buy prograf 15mg online buy amoxicillin online next day delivery levlen drug store online pct after anavar only cycle clomid reviews twins generic viagra professional online amoxil for uti over the counter medicine same as prednisone buy plavix with visa what is metronidazole 500mg tab used for what does xalatan look like viagra aus der apotheke paroxetine tablets usp 20 mg side effects of prozac nhs sertralina bula pdf levaquin shop net bisoprolol vs metoprolol vs carvedilol average price aspirin hospital finpecia buy online ireland order 20 mg accutane good neighbor pharmacy in puerto rico how much is snovitra super power tablets buy dapoxetine 20 purchase viagra canada fast allopurinol delivery how much money can you get for catching an alligator buy prilosec 10 mg purchase aleve order xalatan overnight ordering online uk brand viagra what does ceftin 500mg treat ryobi lithium reviews is ventolin over the counter australia ciplox 100mg buy best place buy aciphex zyloprim 100mg cheap what is viagra made of clarithromycin side effects forum lisinopril buy india amaryl delivery uk canada pharmacy 24 dp fgr 100 pill novartis voltaren gel shortage birth control and low dose aspirin best place buy flovent mevacor for sale uk cheap genuine hydrochlorothiazide online buy generic cytotec online with prescription astelin recommended dosage dosage of doxycycline for uti how to use etodolac what are the side effects of bactrim nymphomax 20 mg where to get viagra in india cheap rumalaya liniment uk erythromycin what is it used for allegra pill canadian asacol comprare buy genuine viagra soft uk post cycle therapy clomid et hcg prilosec otc 20 mg price zestoretic ordering no prescription herbal v blue pill review zyrtec where can i buy it do you need rx aceon vpxl best online non prescription pharmacy cheap prograf pills buy retin-a 0,05 hong kong depakote reviews migraines is cialis prescribed for women what are the side effects of anafranil what companys can i order antibiotics without prescription levitra orodispersible (vardenafil) viagra salesman movie is there a shortage of shuddha guggulu buy india drugs online minipress online sales canadian pharmacy prevacid solutab abilify through prescription assistance generic uk paypal urispas better than alphagan calcium carbonate delivery london doxycycline dosage for malaria prevention what is shallaki herb testosterone cream gynecomastia protonix online forum can you order shatavari buy etodolac with visa naproxen overdose amount good neighbor pharmacy puerto rico shopper buy nizoral lowest price side effects of prednisolone eye drops in dogs atarax recommended dosage medication for anxiety disorder list buy tamoxifen india colchicine tablets uk over the counter hyaluronic acid phone in order for midamor transdermal drug delivery system of diclofenac suprax medication order ginseng energy now directions cytoxan online legally cialis online purchase paypal can i get addicted to citalopram can you buy benadryl online disfuncion erectil en jovenes no prescription pharmacy amoxil imitrex pills sweat order prazosin 120 mg what does periactin treat cost of lipitor vs generic mobic available in canada very cheap altace malegra dxt medication side effects malegra dxt overnight pharmacy minocin bonus pills what is the drug classification for zetia is generic mentat ds syrup available in usa wellbutrin sr 100mg reviews aspirin over the counter brands anacin generico online prescription prednisolone is for what canadian pharmacy without prescrition mastercard nitroglycerin synthesis formula ordering viagra super active online drug shop discount is it illegal to order generic viagra professional is differin available on line in canada evista on line in the mexico buy prandin without a script how long do you have to be on prednisone to gain weight ketoconazole usage zithromax western australia can you get high off amoxil is there a generic for vytorin 10 20 vermox no prescription canada exelon salem nuclear hydrochlorothiazide medication used over counter natural viagra substitutes buy blopress next day amoxil 1000 ???? buy acticin online no prescription walmart pharmacy prices levitra what does fertomid look like buy clomid cheap prescription drug baclofen there generic mirapex er side effects after finishing accutane buy plavix tablets usa trandate spain lioresal no prrescription what is prometrium used for in ivf i want to buy aciclovir health canada viagra super active best online pharmacy generic topamax buy alli refill pack 60mg amlodipine besylate 10 mg en espanol yagara shopping what is the most common dosage for synthroid what is prednisolone drugs generic for zithromax z-pak diamox shop net prescription nausea medicine for pregnancy coumadin and over the counter medication piracetam buy usa pill rx health order toradol products maxalt on line purchase over the counter medicine phenergan buy aceon pills buy viagra over counter melbourne disulfiram reaction cephalosporins zerit delivery london buy levitra professional hong kong cheap alesse uk free shipping do you need rx colospa depakote price walmart generic allegra d at costco ordering drugs from canada illegal pil perancang untuk ibu menyusukan anak where to buy nolvadex drugs online lisinopril 10 mg tablet lupin fertility drugs for sale 2011 kamagra soft pharmacy prices list pletal side effects contraindications what is the medicine trazodone cheap promethizine without prescription bf3 stats synthroid delivery what is considered a high dose of gabapentin buy beconase aq overseas is it illegal to order generic nolvadex reviews on trimox lady era 40 mg dose taking 100mg clomid injectable benadryl for sale drinking on antibiotics flucloxacillin what is toradol pain medication what is cipro 500 prescribed for buy grifulvin v online at canada pharmacy low cost overnight protonix furosemide reviews and dosage can get off allopurinol dulcolax canada overnight delivery best generic tadapox sites cheap metoclopramide sale uk lithium tablet sale order augmentin online no prescription cheap trental pills viagra blue light what is the generic version of cialis what is lasix for horses minocycline shopping best place to buy orlistat in india etodolac reviews how long to take lipitor mexican pharmacy no prescription kamagra gold asacol for men sale in uk does provera pills make you gain weight forum propecia review online pharmacy order furosemide online sample buy viagra canadian stat holidays family day buy fincar 200 diclofenac 100mg er where can i purchase luvox flagyl online order cheap citalopram online baclofen uses off label best place to buy fucidin in canada history of cipla company can you buy hyzaar losartan hydrochlorothiazide hydrochlorthiazide order fucidin canada natural foods that work like viagra purchase generic brand cialis purchasing calan online buy zyloprim no prescription tetracycline side effects in pregnancy metformin cheap price buy tegretol online at canada pharmacy beat way to order viagra soft purchase gyne-lotrimin pills levaquin next day what is buspar for skelaxin prescription medication 1000 mg aleve very cheap valtrex which uk site to buy olanzapine lawsuit against prilosec how much does wellbutrin cost in canada purchasing nitroglycerin online uk generic lisinopril paypal motilium 10 mg domperidone side effects liv 52 generic name canadian pharmacies viagra cialis what is crestor for and side effects zebeta brand positioning generic benadryl switzerland buy serophene paypal accepted cipro with food or without what does metoclopramide hydrochloride do fluoxetine 40 mg anxiety levitra discount coupons ginseng tablets holland barrett how much does prometrium cost without insurance buy hong kong discount generic rhinocort best generic hytrin review how long does it take for motrin 800 to work aldactone 25 mg hair loss discontinued depo provera side effects cytotec sale quezon city clomid overnight buy 100mg motilium usa no prescription order lamisil 120 mg pariet buy online us what are the side effects of taking accutane actoplus us companies only digoxin results forum lisinopril alternative medicine tenormin 100 do i need a prescription for ashwagandha through without abilify cheap lamisil jock itch prices indocin over counter order erection packs 3 prescription viagra natural alternative viagra gnc differin prices usa sale cheap tenormin cod lithium without insurance cost viagra building in toronto canada drugstore lasix drugs similar to coumadin is canadian viagra safe youtube carlos herrera el viagra fluoxetine online coupon code cheap erection pills cephalexin without script how long does it take for cymbalta to start taking effect canadian lotrisone ortho tri cyclen in usa calan sr price what are the side effects of viagra best viagra professional prices sildenafil canadian furosemide 20 mg injection buy actos canada drugs generic fosamax price usa tadalafil discount fluoxetine tablets used the pill levlen reviews atarax india ajanta pharma kamagra gold clomid or nolva for hdrol pct what does fosamax alli diet pill reviews side effects cheap cipro xr epivir-hbv tablets what medicine can you take for back pain while pregnant buy levitra plus online no prescription united states cleocin pharmacy coupons buy kamagra next day delivery online doxycycline tablets for purchase generic viagra cheapest online where can i order premarin buy urispas in india online generic nitrofurantoin cost get cleocin gel las vegas buy asacol astrailia citalopram combination desyrel buy online canada generic tadalafil cialis dipyridamole echeck buy famvir online from usa kosovarja tu u qi video atorvastatin cost amitriptyline pain dose over the counter fertility drugs to get pregnant sinemet online cheap buy retino a cream 0 05 buy ginseng root lipitor generic canada release date nymphomax uk next day delivery skelaxin brand order order cleocin t best site to buy retino-a cream 0,025 coreg cr maximum dose ou acheter alli pas cher differin como se usa generic name for compazine comprar sustiuto de viagara revatio prescription assistance estrace online pharmacy discount canadian pharmacy azulfidine safe ortho tri cyclen no precription buy cardizem mg cialis without insurance cyklokapron next day best cheap drugstore concealer cheapest anafranil tablets uk glucotrol best online non prescription pharmacy vgr 100 effects zoloft lawsuits 2011 order live ants for antworks kytril tablets purchase on line generic urispas buy canada what is strattera used for depression increasing buspar dosage ashwagandha weight gain side effects buy nolvadex mg online furosemide compared hydrochlorothiazide norvasc from canada buspar mg canadian rx purchase atorlip 20 cheap pay with paypal pharmacy oder mg tablets of clomid levitra viagra cialis price comparison arava generico italiano cheapest remeron in the uk class action lawsuit against allianz digoxin online order mg evista 60 mg price can order synthroid canada rosuvastatin 20 mg price toprol xl to buy in england 10 mg accutane per day how to take benadryl without getting sleep generic phexin cost worldwide pharmacy lopid what is prometrium used for during pregnancy dutasteride vs finasteride hair loss brand cialis sale auk drugstore india pharmacies online that sell effexor xr clorfenamina maleato jarabe buy serpina in ireland fucidin medicine children discount code for cleocin vytorin dosage recommended aripiprazole abilify children is generic micardis effective renagel 100mg cheap what are the side effects of ropinirole cialis daily use forum buy methotrexate for daily use buy erythromycin acne where to buy levlen ointment where to buy nizoral cream 2 lasix most common side effects viagra generico italiano l-tryptophan order in the us do you need rx alavert what drug category is nimotop purina one healthy weight management cat food is generic vasodilan effective ayurslim australia pharmacy my lariam coupons lov cost ranitidine india astelin price generic finax in usa ortho tri cyclen vs ortho tri cyclen lo safe perscription medication in canada strattera adhd reviews aciclovir mg tablet what dosages does synthroid come in pra que serve esse remedio cloridrato de ciprofloxacino brand cialis vs generic cialis is alli a good weight loss pill norvasc for men sale in uk renagel online order order levitra in canada cost of aricept vs donepezil pharmacy that sells deltasone ryan giggs 1000 games singulair indian pharmacy acheter calandre clio 2 rs buy diamox 5 clomid spain ventolin pharmacy prices list voltaren 50 mg prospecto plendil on the internet xanax bars illegal plavix tablets india prednisone tablets price penegra generic wikipedia drugs metformin online prescription list of tesco stores selling tofranil is lioresal available over the counter cheap generic buy medrol online staxyn price buy keftab 10 side effects of tramadol 100mg estrogen pills uk endep online shipping order abilify 15mg canadian clomid post cycle therapy is it legal to buy prescriptions from canada buy cheap ceftin using pay pal content and code support ampicillin generic mexico over the counter allopurinol without online buy side effects of losartan pot motilium no prescription compare prices dc alliance pharmacies buy altace with no rx cialis in the uk now what are the types of drugs used in sport buy fosamax hong kong cordarone non generic levitra online overnight delivery canada pharmacies online that sell pariet what strength does xalatan come in buy aceon 200 pastillas xerograx para adelgazar flagyl tablets for pigeons generic flomax paypal ordering cheap amaryl purchase trileptal in usa all types yasmin pills dipyridamole generic equivalent rogaine side effects forum where coumadin metabolized response liquid hoodia review air max 1 leopard print cheap buy yasmin in ireland can order probalan online benadryl cost walmart erythromycin eye ointment shelf life cost of cefixime atrovent tablets 150 mg diclofenac gel to buy from europe biomedical research alliance of new york brany order unisom top weight gain pills for men can i buy drugs from canada herbal blue pill suprax tablets buy how long do i have to take coumadin use rogaine 5 coupon online purchase eurax skelaxin shipping overseas viagra costco cost valacyclovir price uk viagra for sale usa luvox online no prescription can i get levitra plus doxycycline 100mg for acne cheapest drug viagra sublingual metoclopramide 10 mg tablet tev elocom mast za bebe voltaren ec 75 mg tablet zentel 400 side effects advair diskus manufacturer coupons nolvadex from uk nootropil cost canadian buy cheap lopid pills cheap ranitidine no prescription acheter alliance fable lost chapter buy generic cialis uk buy xeloda from canada calcium carbonate paypal maxalt mg price how to buy propecia in australia wellbutrin dosage for anxiety what is a ventolin evohaler ordering zithromax mexico silagra buy canada genuine avalide best price haldol tablets uk plendil online shipping encyclopedia and dictionary of medicine nursing and allied health price como comprar cardizem pastillas para abortar misoprostol precio bupropion withdrawal long elimite delivery uk super levitra force 80 mg low price ginseng uk combivent usage pharmacy buy alesse overnight generic apcalis sx usa pharmacy calan reviews and dosage terramycin sublingual dosage buy desyrel 5 benicar annual sales generic rumalaya forte dosage instructions flomax in usa post cycle therapy terramycin can you get digoxin zovirax ointment 5 uses tetracycline drugs class buy noroxin with visa order generic zetia flovent generic reviews buy zoloft india doxycycline 100 mg 2 3 times a day for 10 14 days diltiazem online coupon code omifin para hombres en el embarazo fluoxetine capsules 20mg reviews sale duphalac where can you get zithromax renagel tablets used sevelamer cheap india pharmacy is buying prednisone online illegal does mirapex make you gain weight where to buy neo medrol online . ?? finasteride 5 mg ?????? proscar diltiazem hydrochloride side effects cheap generic lipitor 40mg viagra uk reviews herbal viagra boots uk percocet ukraine doxycycline hyclate uses sinus infection cheap clomid generic online pharmacy buy online aceon generic arava canada overnight delivery zentel 400mg tablet generic topamax safe exelon corporate discounts chloromycetin ear drops india medrol 100 review can buy cialis online generic meclizine us canadian generic pharmaceutical manufacturers buy generic viagra forum walgreens doxycycline prices what solid is formed when calcium carbonate decomposes overnight pharmacy tinidazole buy cheap prescription buy kamagra online no prescription venlor generico online tadacip cost in canada ventolin nebules dosage children purchasing astelin online generic diovan overnite shipping imitrex ordering no prescription buy zyvox singapore seroquel medicine canada where to buy accutane review online canada venlor spain buy tretinoin 0,05 online amazon allegra d online order order geriforte online uk safe buy minomycin online harrison kroger pharmacy hours allegra dosage by weight where to buy premarin tablets alavert from usa best medication for severe anxiety and depression depakote 1000 mg side effects order viagra jellyfish from pills advair steroid weight gain lotensin canada head office precose refills cialis jelly sale generic mastercard retin a canada pharmacy what is accutane levitra walmart price can i get clonidine original minocin online where can i buy myambutol there generic mevacor us online pharmacy no prescription hytrin what does kamagra cheapest unisom at what dose does topamax cause weight loss how long does cardura take to work is meclizine over the counter or prescription why was pyridium discontinued kamagra express canada endep ordering no prescription purchasing famvir online naproxen sodium 550 dosage what is the average dose for synthroid generic biaxin buy canada actoplus met pills buy how to buy flomax online best price for apcalis sx stopping zoloft medication hoodia 1000 mg styplon canada head office purim delivery israel where can i get saw palmetto pills prescription acne treatment to buy vasodilan for sale australia western drug kamagra oral jelly what is in phentermine diet pills how to use nitroglycerin for angina sominex drugstore.com pyridium generic equivalent lipitor generic coupon lexapro online uk tadiran lithium battery shelf life trental 400 drazse' 100x nolvadex tablets on line to buy where to buy antibiotics uk buy cialis cheap cialis premarin medicine used what is cymbalta 60 mg lozol side effects long term use obagi nu-derm tretinoin cream 0.1 uroxatral shelf life